The 2008 Redhotpawn Quiz

The year 2008 on redhotpawn has been historical in many ways.

Take this quiz to reflect on the many public things happening this year - if you get some of the answers right you might be able to figure out what actually happened behind the scenes. Now that’s a real challenge, isn’t it??

1. As stated in the “Leaving RHP” posting I was reported by David Tebb jan 18th. I was part of the game mod team at that point. Why was the game mod team dismissed jan 28th and not immediately after my reporting??

2. David Tebb was very focused on my performance in the 2007 championships. Please take a look at the analysis of all my games in the 2007 championship in these postings: Game analysis 1/4, Game analysis 2/4, Game analysis 3/4, Game analysis 4/4 and ask yourself the question: If you were an experienced game mod like David Tebb, which players would you investigate further??

3. March 25th the new game mod team vote is closed.
If you were the site admin of RHP would you have setup this vote in the first place?
If you were the site admin of RHP, who would you have chosen to form the new game mod team??
When answering these questions, please bear in mind your answers to 1) and 2)

4. After the nomination of the new game mod team, nothing really happens. Why?
If the new game moderation team is checking each other for possible engine use, who would have highest matchups and possibly be a cheater?
Since this proces of checking each other dragged out for several months, should we conclude that one or more of the new game mods had suspiciously high numbers?
If yes, which one (or more) of the game mods could that be? David Tebb? Korch? Gatecrasher? Phlabibit? !~TONY~! ?
Once again, looking back on your answers to 1) and 2) might help you…

5. As suggested in question 4, at least one of the game mods is probably being suspected. Which of the game mods of that time do you think defended him at his point??

6. Phlabibit decides to lave the new game mod team. We all know Phlabibt as a person who likes (is dependant on!) having influence on the site. Why did he decide to leave the game mod team anyway?

7. The new game mod team is dismissed june 18th. The new team banned a few players but apparently never ever got to get a real cooperation going.  
Why was the team not able to cooperate?
If checking each other caused any problems, which game mod member(s) had problems?
If any of the members had evidence against them, why didn’t Russ ban them?
Did any member(s) protect oher member(s) of the new game mod team?

8. Russ launches “a slightly different approach” to game moderation. See this thread.
The new game moderation team is secret. Noone knows who the member(s) is/are.
And possible cheaters should be reported through so called fairplay tickets.
Shortly after this new approach, I am banned from the site.
Based on your answers to some of the questions above and my posting titled “Leaving RHP”, who do you think is forming the new secret  game moderation team??

9. Based on your answers to questions 1) through 8), do you believe RHP game moderation is currently based on objectivity??

10. Is Russ trusting the right people at this time? And are these people given too much power - a power they do not seem to be able to administrate objectively?

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Guy that doesnt wanna be banned

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Can you delete that so I can repost it?

Sorry I didn’t delete until now. Haven’t been online all day.

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1. Because the rumor had gotten out. Allegedly Tebb had posted a clan request in his profile and had been spreading the rumor to clan leaders who messaged him.

2. Well

Salin
Fritz 10: 1) 8/15 53,33% ( 53,33% )
Fritz 10: 2) 2/15 13,33% ( 66,67% )
Fritz 10: 3) 1/15 6,67% ( 73,33% )
cludi
Fritz 10: 1) 11/16 68,75% ( 68,75% )
Fritz 10: 2) 3/16 18,75% ( 87,50% )
Fritz 10: 3) 0/16 0,00% ( 87,50% )

cludi
Fritz 10: 1) 11/18 61,11% ( 61,11% )
Fritz 10: 2) 3/18 16,67% ( 77,78% )
Fritz 10: 3) 1/18 5,56% ( 83,33% )
English Tal
Fritz 10: 1) 12/17 70,59% ( 70,59% )
Fritz 10: 2) 3/17 17,65% ( 88,24% )
Fritz 10: 3) 0/17 0,00% ( 88,24% )

cludi
Fritz 10: 1) 12/12 100,00% ( 100,00% )
Fritz 10: 2) 0/12 0,00% ( 100,00% )
Fritz 10: 3) 0/12 0,00% ( 100,00% )
Philidor
Fritz 10: 1) 9/12 75,00% ( 75,00% )
Fritz 10: 2) 2/12 16,67% ( 91,67% )
Fritz 10: 3) 0/12 0,00% ( 91,67% ) (short game)

philidor
Fritz 10: 1) 10/10 100,00% ( 100,00% )
Fritz 10: 2) 0/10 0,00% ( 100,00% )
Fritz 10: 3) 0/10 0,00% ( 100,00% )
cludi
Fritz 10: 1) 5/9 55,56% ( 55,56% )
Fritz 10: 2) 3/9 33,33% ( 88,89% )
Fritz 10: 3) 0/9 0,00% ( 88,89% )

2/4

English Tal
Fritz 10: 1) 33/52 63,46% ( 63,46% )
Fritz 10: 2) 6/52 11,54% ( 75,00% )
Fritz 10: 3) 11/52 21,15% ( 96,15% ) 50+ moves of non data base moves!
cludi
Fritz 10: 1) 35/53 66,04% ( 66,04% )
Fritz 10: 2) 12/53 22,64% ( 88,68% )
Fritz 10: 3) 1/53 1,89% ( 90,57% )

Patrick06
Fritz 10: 1) 21/41 51,22% ( 51,22% )
Fritz 10: 2) 10/41 24,39% ( 75,61% )
Fritz 10: 3) 7/41 17,07% ( 92,68% )
cludi
Fritz 10: 1) 29/41 70,73% ( 70,73% )
Fritz 10: 2) 9/41 21,95% ( 92,68% )
Fritz 10: 3) 0/41 0,00% ( 92,68% )

cludi
Fritz 10: 1) 20/36 55,56% ( 55,56% )
Fritz 10: 2) 9/36 25,00% ( 80,56% )
Fritz 10: 3) 1/36 2,78% ( 83,33% )
salin
Fritz 10: 1) 17/36 47,22% ( 47,22% )
Fritz 10: 2) 6/36 16,67% ( 63,89% )
Fritz 10: 3) 4/36 11,11% ( 75,00% )

3/4

cludi
Fritz 10: 1) 30/47 63,83% ( 63,83% )
Fritz 10: 2) 8/47 17,02% ( 80,85% )
Fritz 10: 3) 3/47 6,38% ( 87,23% )
Tebb
Fritz 10: 1) 20/46 43,48% ( 43,48% )
Fritz 10: 2) 13/46 28,26% ( 71,74% )
Fritz 10: 3) 2/46 4,35% ( 76,09% )

Tebb
Fritz 10: 1) 16/26 61,54% ( 61,54% )
Fritz 10: 2) 1/26 3,85% ( 65,38% )
Fritz 10: 3) 4/26 15,38% ( 80,77% )
cludi
Fritz 10: 1) 23/26 88,46% ( 88,46% )
Fritz 10: 2) 2/26 7,69% ( 96,15% )
Fritz 10: 3) 0/26 0,00% ( 96,15% )

cludi
Fritz 10: 1) 47/61 77,05% ( 77,05% )
Fritz 10: 2) 7/61 11,48% ( 88,52% )
Fritz 10: 3) 3/61 4,92% ( 93,44% )
Gatecrasher
Fritz 10: 1) 35/60 58,33% ( 58,33% )
Fritz 10: 2) 17/60 28,33% ( 86,67% )
Fritz 10: 3) 5/60 8,33% ( 95,00% )

4/4

uffejaster
Fritz 10: 1) 24/40 60,00% ( 60,00% )
Fritz 10: 2) 9/40 22,50% ( 82,50% )
Fritz 10: 3) 3/40 7,50% ( 90,00% )
cludi
Fritz 10: 1) 31/40 77,50% ( 77,50% )
Fritz 10: 2) 1/40 2,50% ( 80,00% )
Fritz 10: 3) 3/40 7,50% ( 87,50% )

cludi
Fritz 10: 1) 8/16 50,00% ( 50,00% )
Fritz 10: 2) 5/16 31,25% ( 81,25% )
Fritz 10: 3) 0/16 0,00% ( 81,25% )
uffjaster
Fritz 10: 1) 8/16 50,00% ( 50,00% )
Fritz 10: 2) 2/16 12,50% ( 62,50% )
Fritz 10: 3) 1/16 6,25% ( 68,75% )

cludi
Fritz 10: 1) 38/49 77,55% ( 77,55% )
Fritz 10: 2) 5/49 10,20% ( 87,76% )
Fritz 10: 3) 1/49 2,04% ( 89,80% )
Patrick06
Fritz 10: 1) 27/48 56,25% ( 56,25% )
Fritz 10: 2) 14/48 29,17% ( 85,42% )
Fritz 10: 3) 4/48 8,33% ( 93,75% )

Obviously Gatecrasher and English Tal, 50+ moves at 95% matchup, Patrick 06 as well.

Is this the engine David Tebb accused you of using? I dont really get it.

3. Yes I would because if it blows up the members share some of the blame. David Tebb, !~TONY~!, cmsmaster, Korch and try to sign Northern Lad.

4. a) supposedly they started pointing the finger at eachother b)the higher rated mods c) yup

d) Gatecrasher when I first heard that there was a moderator cheating
my first thought was him. There was a user “Exy” who accused him of cheating saying, “Gatecrasher was rated 1400 before his suspicious rise, if you look back in his graph you’ll see it, however only mods have that feature” well now every member has that feature and if you rewind Gatecrashers graph it does look awfully suspicious.

With his suspicious looking early games, his high matchup in the 07 championship along with whispers that it was indeed him I think I would bet on it being him. It definitely paints a picture. The other users

Korch- He’s also got a high rating on play chess which has a very good anti cheat system, as well as an 2200 OTB rating He’s also shown very good knowledge chess in forums, so I feel pretty comfortable with him.

!~Tony~!- sound knowledge of chess in the forums, verified elo. Also he wasnt even there, he was on vacation so its highly improbable he was involved.

Phlabibit- Hahahaha

David Tebb- He’s shown very good knowledge of chess in the forum, could be an imposter thats always an option after Hebert, but matchups are too low so that seems unlikely.

So Gate is definitely the most suspicious member here.

5. well lets take looK:

Phlabbit- I dont see him being a huge part of discussions with his rating

Tony- He was on vacation through this whole moderation, thats been said many times by NO1MAURADER.

So that leaves David Tebb, Korch and Gatecrasher. Obviously the conflict was between these three egomaniacs. Both Gatecrasher and Korch (by Arrakis) have accused of cheating and David Tebb hasnt and has very low matchups so I feel that the conflict was probably between Korch and Gatecrasher. Korch isnt the most friendly person in the world. I think that you know something I do not, the way you have asked the questions
seems to show that. So I think David Tebb is the one that sided between the two, likely Gatecrasher because he would have accused Gate sooner if it was the other way around.

6. I dont really know. Obviously something do to with the conflict between the big three.

7. Perhaps because Korch and Gate both pointed the finger at eachother? probably so that other people wouldnt point the finger at the blemished game mods when they’re banned.

8. I dont know it doesnt make sense. I think David Tebb and Gatecrasher are forming the new game mods since Tebb was the one pushing to have you crucified. Also the banning was shortly after the thread was posted demanding Tebb’s apology.

9. No I dont, I think theres some “good ol boy” relationship between the old mods, which is probably the point you are trying to push.

There that looks alot better, pasted it from notepad and it didnt come out right.

Guy that doesnt wanna be banned

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what do you think of that analysis claus? Gotta feel bad for Korch getting involved in that mess.

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yeah Phlabbit probably quit because he was being brushed aside by the three egomaniacs.

Your excellent observations and analysis raises quite a few other questions:

1) David Tebb is an excellent game mod. I know first hand.
Why is it that he apparently decided to investigate only my games in the 2007 championship when it is quite obvious, as you pointed out, that the numbers of Gatecrasher, English Tal and Pattrick06 are even more suspicious than mine? (Important note here: Being a former game mod myself, I have 100% understanding that my 2007 championship numbers caused more than raised eyebrows on David Tebb and others)

2) Rather than doing the neccessary investigations on English Tal, David Tebb decided to team up with him instead.
Why did the game mod David Tebb turn the blind eye on the English Tal “achievements” in the 2007 championships?
Why did the person David Tebb decide to tell English Tal of my reporting instead of investigating him?

3) You think Gatecrasher was the game mod having problems when they started investigating each other. Let’s assume that this is true. What would an experienced game mod like David Tebb do in this situation?
Would he perform the neccessary investigations against his game mod colleague (Gatecrasher) or would he turn his blind eye on Gatecrasher as well?

4) Let’s turn to Russ for a moment.
You say that David Tebb probably sided for Gatecrasher in the Korch-Gatecrasher battle.
If we assume that Gatecrasher is the game mod having critical numbers and David Tebb ignores these numbers one way or the other: What should Russ do??
Should he accept the evidence against Gatecrasher if such exists and ban him, or should he follow the advice from trustee David Tebb and ignore…?

5) You think David Tebb is a part of the new secret game mod team (and possibly also Gatecrasher).
Considering the first 4 questions, how is it then possible for Russ to have faith in this team when:
- David Tebb has shown on several occasions that personal relations are far more important to him than facts
- Gatecrasher seems to be operating only on the mercy of his game mod friend David Tebb

What do you think?

Guy that doesnt wanna be banned

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1. Three possible answers I see here:

-maybe he was using a different engine or didnt get the same results?
Which engine did he accuse you of using? you didnt answer that one last time. Maybe he had different hardware, or engine settings or more than one.

-He found “engine moves” in yours but not the others. I understand this “engine move” definition is probably very subjective to biases which may overlap with the third option

-He’s biased in their favor, perhaps in some way he turned a blind eye to his “engine moves” but not yours.

2. Any of those three options could explain the issue. It’s pretty unprofessional to tell Tal to say the least. Certainly blemishes his reputation as not unbiased.

3. Well like I said there was probably alot of finger pointing back and forth which is why russ didnt ban the one causing the problem if there was evidence. If theres more than one involved it presents some difficulty for Russ because he doesnt know who to trust. An expereinced game mod like Tebb should investagate them both. Theres no way to tell he didnt do that. Even if Tebb sided with (less likely) Korch there would still be that problem for Russ if Gatecrasher pointed the finger to Korch or even Tebb as he wouldnt know who to trust.

4. Well Tebb can likely just ignore those critical numbers as Im sure game moderation is very subjective as to what constitutes an “engine move” he can ignore Gates high matchups on the grounds that it looks human or whatever.

5. Good questions here. But he doesnt really know if Tebb is biased because he knows so little about chess, and probably just has this website as a side job and doesnt spend alot of time dealing with key issues. Gatecrasher definitely seems to be operating only on the mercy of
Tebb. I dont think Ive ever seen a human game match up 95% with fritz. Whether it be otb or correspondence (in the non computer age) just doesnt happen. Perhaps Tebb is protecting him because he’s been useful developing anti cheating software and that has blinded him to the
truth? Ive looked at Gatecrashers early games and I expect his rating is no higher than 1600.

1. If my memory serves me well, I believe David Tebb investigated me with several engines (including Fritz 9) and came to the conclusion that I was using Fritz.
In his evidence against me he did point at several engine like moves. The moves he included in the evidence against me were mostly moves that didn’t match any engines?! At the time I saw the evidence sent by David Tebb I was very surprised if anyone could be persuaded into believing that these moves would prove that I was a cheater.

A few examples:

My exchange sac in the game in this post: http://www.clausjensen.com/?p=21
16.Rxd5! a move I believe no engine would ever find. But after the sac the engine understands what’s going on.

Another one is from my win over English Tal in this post: http://www.clausjensen.com/?p=109
63…Kc3! Trust me: I’ve looked at this position over and over again. And I still believe this is the only way to progress if you want to go for the win.
Engines find this move inferior…

Another example:
My game against Richardt Hansen - http://www.redhotpawn.com/gameanalysis/boardhistory.php?gameid=3827383
David Tebb thinks 31.Kg3 looks engine like. I agree that the move looks odd. But it’s not the prefered move of any engine I know of.
When I played this game I had a little trouble finding a way to break through black’s solid, but also passive, position. I decided to activate my King. And I was ready to advance it all the way to the 6th rank, if neccessary, to put maximum pressure on black.

Another David Tebb example is my game against Kaoslos:
http://www.redhotpawn.com/gameanalysis/boardhistory.php?gameid=3325196
David Tebb commented that this whole game eeked of engine (both sides).
Ironically enough he has chosen a game where I offered Kaoslos a draw in the final position because Kaoslos has built a perfect fortress. But if you ask Fritz, “he” would tell you that I (as black) have a winning position.

2. David Tebb IS biased. Sad but true!
Sad because he is probably the best game mod and the most trusted of all players (amongst both users and administrators)
True because he has shown complete lack of integrity at several occasions as this thread is revealing.

3. You are pinpointing the essential problem here. It’s impossible to run a chess site without having any chess knowledge!
I sent Russ a PM some time ago in which I tried to helping him sorting right from wrong! He may have taken notice, but he didn’t take the appropriate action.

4. As a game mod you would make a big mistake in ignoring numbers completely. In several cases you would be able to justify engine choices as human, but still your suspicion level should be high.

5. Russ is trusting David Tebb 100%
If David Tebb hadn’t shown lack of judgement in 2008, ie. being extremely biased, I would trust him as well!
David Tebb has been given too much power and trust and he has not been able to handle this with responsibility. Very sad, really.

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Nice reply here claus, its too bad no one else wants to reply to this thread.

This thread is read by hundreds of people every day and you are a good example of the possibility to post anonymously.
Still, noone seem to have an opinion. Or at least don’t want to share it.

Either they don’ want to post on a blog of a banned user, or they are afraid of being banned from RHP. Or maybe even both :)

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Just a quick look over those moves, I dont see anything too suspicious, he;s got a point about the Rajan game, Id think a grand master would find (and well trained) would find Bd3. Kg3 is fritz 9s favorite move, the move makes sense however.

To give my exchange sac as an example of a computer move is simply too far out! To me it spells desperation and biased analysis methods…

I’m surprised that Kg3 is Fritz 9’s prefered move. To a depth of 14 Fritz 10 would play
1) 31.Kg1?
2) 31.g3
3) 31.f3
4) 31.Kh1?
5) Rd5
6) Kg3
Fritx evaluates this position as +2.68 pawns for white, but it’s obviously a position where Fritz doesn’t really know what to do and I think that my plan of bringing my king in front of the kingside pawns before pushing them is the best plan available. Looking at the position today, I’m not able to find any better plan…

Well I am reading it all with interest but I don’t have an opinion one way or the other because I’m not that good at chess. Most of the discussion is way over my head.

Personally I felt the treatment you received was reprehensible and I said so on the RHP forums. A public witch hunt should never be conducted whatever the reasons behind it.

Like you say though - there are many players on the site that are obvious engine users and yet it appears that Tebb had an issue with you and managed to further a personal agenda with the help of some other “respected” people.

I didn’t post this thread with the intention to discuss my case all over again. I think it has been discussed more than adequately already…

The intention of this post was to act as an eye-opener to RHP players reading this blog about the current (year 2008) state of game moderation on RHP…which is unfortunately characterised by camraderi, misuse of power and lack of banning obvious cheaters…

Time for summing up 2008 on RHP:

The messy year started off with a dismissal of the game mod team jan 28th. I was reported jan 18th. What happened in the 10 days between these dates has not been answered in this thread.

2007 Championship - Here on my blog I have only presented the analysises of my own games with the engine available to me: Fritz 10. I was accused of using Fritz 9, but I simply don’t have that engine and to be honest, I don’t know the difference between the two…But I do know that Fritz 11 (Gatecrasher analysis) was getting very similar results to mine.
Even though only 2 games from the other finalists are present here, it draws a picture that would immediately draw the attention to anyone interested in analysing possible cheats.
Since everyone has an engine these days, anyone can do their own analysis with their own engine and their own settings of the 2007 championship games. You would then be able to form your own opinion on what is rightand what is wrong in this case. I can assure you that it’s a very interesting excercise.

In the second game mod team of the year it seems that David Tebb “chose sides” between Gatecrasher and Korch. He chose to clean Gatecrasher and accuse Korch of engine use! Korch must have been very disappointed at this point - a genuine player being accused of engine use from a highly respected game mod like David Tebb.
Russ was unable to sort right from wrong and dismissed the game mod team for the second time this year.

There seems to be a general consensus that David Tebb is forming the new, secret, game mod team. Of course only a few know for sure if this is true.
If it is true, I’m afraid I have to say that Russ has made a serious misjudgement. David Tebb is an excellent game mod, but as the above shows, he is sometimes unable to separate friendship from objective analysis and he has shown extreme lack of integrity on several occasions the last year…

Well the 2007 Championship has finally been awarded to English Tal.

Well it was.

Then he was banned. After thanking everyone so profusely on the forums.

So Gatecrasher is 2007 champion.

Until he’s banned.

And the big question is:
Why on earth was English Tal awarded the championship in september, after my banning late august, when site admins knew all too well that I had reported him all the way back in january 2008???
And the evidence I sent them at that time was MUCH, MUCH more damming than the evidence on which they, with a ½ year delay, decided to ban me on.

Something rotten is going on…And Russ and Chris seems to have lost control!!

When that is said, I have to acknowledge that bannings are now coming more regularly than at any other time in 2008.
That’s very good. And I hope the 2008 Champion will be a human player, which requires at least a few more bannings IMO.

Personally I have lost all faith in RHP game moderation and don’t believe this will change in the near future :’(
Russ & Chris appear to be walking on egg shells around the issue rather than taking decisive action. They risk more by non action than taking the bull by the horns and banning all those that have out stayed their welcome.

It is not only the game moderation that has failed at RHP, forum moderation has failed for a long time. How do people like No1marauder (who probably uses ChessMaster) go insulting people all round the forums? Even the forum mods carry out veiled attacks against other users. What other forum has this type of nonsense?

The only game moderation that happens is when the users (or abusers) let slip a name in the forums, and the admins hand is forced.

It’s been more than 1½ years since I posted this quiz so I think it’s about time to post the answers!

1) The reason why the game mod team was not dismissed until 28th of january is that this is the date where I reported Gatecrasher for cheating in 2007 championship!!
After my reporting jan 18th I of course did some analysises of the 2007 championship games. And Gatecrashers numbers were so bad that I saw no other option tha to report him to the site admins.

Look up reported player #1 stats in my Leaving RHP blog entry for details on Gatecrashers numbers.

2) It’s quite obvious to me that 4 players were having critical numbers from the 2007 championship:
Gatecrasher, English Tal, myself and Patrick06

3) These questions are of course very difficult to answer.
But still today it puzzles me how Russ and Chris could decide to put Gatecrasher in a new game mod team when they knew only too well that he had been cheating in the 2007 championship.

4) To avoid a case like mine, the new game mod team started checking each other.
Gatecrasher had the most critical stats, followed by Korch and David Tebb.
The stats of Tony and Phlab were considerably cleaner than the Big 3.

5) Gatecrasher had very critical stats when checked by his new game mod team mates. But David Tebb protected him and then Gate and Tebb teamed up and decided that Korch was a cheater!
Crisis in the game mod team!

6) Phlabibit left the game mod team because “he was tired of the mods pointing fingers at each other”

This could easily translate into: I’m not supporting Gatecrasher and Tebb’s personal vendetta against Korch which has only one purpose: Take focus away from Gatecrasher’s critical numbers and put pressure on Korch to support a ban of cludi!

7) I think this has been answered thoroughly in the previous answers…

8) I have no idea who is forming the new team. But I was banned august 18th or 19th 2008. That’s all I know…

9) Of course it isn’t!
Too many persoanl interests, too much camraderi, too much general bias.

I don’t know what the situation is today, but 1 or 2 years back, game moderation was no more than a farce!

10) No he wasn’t.
Gatecrasher tried to ban Korch to save his own ass, David Tebb supported a known cheater (Gatecrasher) and supported a ban of Korch unless he would cooperate and support my banning.

Btw, I noticed that Gatecrasher managed to win the 2008 championship by dragging out all his games against the players he knew were reported for cheating. They were of course banned and Gatecrasher could afford a few losses against other players and still win the championship!
Nice tactic!